Warning issued to cyclists over Tour de France route

Craven Herald: Councillor Andy Quinn Councillor Andy Quinn

Craven will increasingly see groups of cyclists coming into the area to ride the Tour de France route, police have warned.

Villages on the National Cycling Route have already seen a large rise in cyclists, with some of them acting anti-socially and travelling at high speeds, Craven District Council’s select committee was told last Wednesday.

And those numbers are likely to rise considerably as every keen cyclist for miles around will head for the area to cycle the route to be used by the 2014 Tour de France, a senior police officer has warned.

Councillor Andy Quinn (Cons) asked Chief Superintendent Alison Higgins what could be done about some cyclists flouting laws as they sped through villages such as Embsay.

He said packs of cyclists, sometimes riding three abreast, tore through the village on the National Cycling Route, reaching speeds of 40 to 50mph.

“They are a law unto themselves. We have an elderly population in Embsay and we’ve had incidents where car wing mirrors have gone missing. Something needs to be done,” said Coun Quinn.

He said he had also regularly seen cyclists ignoring temporary traffic lights or crossing pelican crossings when they were on red.

Ch Supt Higgins told the meeting that she agreed that cyclists were an increasing problem on roads and likened it to that of speeding motorcyclists.

She said they needed to be re- educated, particularly because their number was likely to increase dramatically with the arrival in the area of the Tour de France in a year’s time.

“We are aware there is a problem, but it will not change overnight,” she said.

She said it would be up to the area’s traffic sergeants, who are responsible for safety on the roads, to engage with cycling groups and re-educate them, as had been done with motorcyclists.

Craven police commander Chief Inspector Simon Lovell added the number of cyclists heading for the area would increase as the date of the race got closer.

He believed half a million people would come to Craven for the weekend itself, but until then “every cyclist worth his salt” would want to cycle the route.

Comments (73)

Please log in to enable comment sorting

2:47pm Thu 7 Mar 13

CSPhotos says...

Does Mr Quinn have any evidence of riders riding through Embsay 3 a breast at 40 - 50mph? With regard to wing mirrors going missing I would suggest the logging trucks which squeeze through the village might be more to blame. A cyclist knocking off a wing mirror is very unlikley to happen as it would cause injury to the rider.

Skipton has found itself in the enviable position of being on the route of the Tour De France, the biggest annual sporting event in the world.
Its dissappointing that this non-story has got any coverage whatsoever.
Does Mr Quinn have any evidence of riders riding through Embsay 3 a breast at 40 - 50mph? With regard to wing mirrors going missing I would suggest the logging trucks which squeeze through the village might be more to blame. A cyclist knocking off a wing mirror is very unlikley to happen as it would cause injury to the rider. Skipton has found itself in the enviable position of being on the route of the Tour De France, the biggest annual sporting event in the world. Its dissappointing that this non-story has got any coverage whatsoever. CSPhotos

4:13pm Thu 7 Mar 13

Alan Dorrington says...

Average cyclists aren't able to ride at 40 mph on normal roads and even downhill in a straight line rarely travel at over 40mph. Hitting a wing mirror as a cyclist usually results in a big crash and sometimes a broken elbow so I would suspect other cars and lorries to be culprits for that.....
Average cyclists aren't able to ride at 40 mph on normal roads and even downhill in a straight line rarely travel at over 40mph. Hitting a wing mirror as a cyclist usually results in a big crash and sometimes a broken elbow so I would suspect other cars and lorries to be culprits for that..... Alan Dorrington

4:33pm Thu 7 Mar 13

Chris45 says...

Absolutely staggered by the attitudes of both the Councillor and the Ch Supt.... to say that "cyclists were an increasing problem on roads and likened it to that of speeding motorcyclists".... in what possible way are they a problem?... yes riding 3 abreast at times (which is not illegal) maybe a nuiciance and inconsiderate, but so are tractors and caravans... it's motorists that largely need educating, I don't recall the last time I read a piece about a car driver being killed or seriously injured by a cyclist who pulled out of a junction without looking... and to all those uneducated motorists that yell or curse under their breath 'pay some road tax. I pay mine'.. it's an emissions tax on your car, which is pumping out the noxious fumes for all to breath, that's why there's no 'road tax' on push irons!... D'oh
Absolutely staggered by the attitudes of both the Councillor and the Ch Supt.... to say that "cyclists were an increasing problem on roads and likened it to that of speeding motorcyclists".... in what possible way are they a problem?... yes riding 3 abreast at times (which is not illegal) maybe a nuiciance and inconsiderate, but so are tractors and caravans... it's motorists that largely need educating, I don't recall the last time I read a piece about a car driver being killed or seriously injured by a cyclist who pulled out of a junction without looking... and to all those uneducated motorists that yell or curse under their breath 'pay some road tax. I pay mine'.. it's an emissions tax on your car, which is pumping out the noxious fumes for all to breath, that's why there's no 'road tax' on push irons!... D'oh Chris45

5:46pm Thu 7 Mar 13

HerbieGreen says...

If any of these cyclists are breaking the law, then quite rightly deal with them - but otherwise accommodate them - they are part of the vanguard of cyclists who will be bringing money and tourism to the area due to the Tour De France coming! I suspect most of the problem is fat councillors being slowed down in their cars - not the danger aspect!!
If any of these cyclists are breaking the law, then quite rightly deal with them - but otherwise accommodate them - they are part of the vanguard of cyclists who will be bringing money and tourism to the area due to the Tour De France coming! I suspect most of the problem is fat councillors being slowed down in their cars - not the danger aspect!! HerbieGreen

5:48pm Thu 7 Mar 13

HerbieGreen says...

In fact has Councillor Quin ever done anything about all the antisocial driving that goes on around the area?
In fact has Councillor Quin ever done anything about all the antisocial driving that goes on around the area? HerbieGreen

5:57pm Thu 7 Mar 13

dales_man says...

Well I never what an idiot that man is, I live in Embsay and not a few yards from the joker. I cycle Embsay East Lane on a regular basis and getting above 30 mph would take some doing.
I have had my wing mirror broken off by a drunk driver who lives in the village. He was prosecuted, my neighbour had hers taken out just a few weeks ago by a car that didnt stop, and a previous car was hit by another car taking out the mirror and a wing. In fact Mr Quin you can take it from me I will be monitoring your driving through the village and reporting you the instant you break the law, best get your bus pass out or learn how to ride a bike.
Well I never what an idiot that man is, I live in Embsay and not a few yards from the joker. I cycle Embsay East Lane on a regular basis and getting above 30 mph would take some doing. I have had my wing mirror broken off by a drunk driver who lives in the village. He was prosecuted, my neighbour had hers taken out just a few weeks ago by a car that didnt stop, and a previous car was hit by another car taking out the mirror and a wing. In fact Mr Quin you can take it from me I will be monitoring your driving through the village and reporting you the instant you break the law, best get your bus pass out or learn how to ride a bike. dales_man

6:11pm Thu 7 Mar 13

Camnorte says...

Dear Sir,
As a still-cycling, 85 year-old, life member of Skipton Cycling Club, (formed in 1958) I think that it fair to say that at no time have I ridden through Embsay or any other Dales location at 45 mph, even in my younger days, nor have I knowingly removed any car wing mirrors.
I have however been knocked into the grass verge near the entrance to Swinden Quarry by a passing car's wing mirror, resulting in a fractured wrist and a visit to Airedale Hospital. Perhaps this was the mirror that Councillor Quinn refers to?
Dear Sir, As a still-cycling, 85 year-old, life member of Skipton Cycling Club, (formed in 1958) I think that it fair to say that at no time have I ridden through Embsay or any other Dales location at 45 mph, even in my younger days, nor have I knowingly removed any car wing mirrors. I have however been knocked into the grass verge near the entrance to Swinden Quarry by a passing car's wing mirror, resulting in a fractured wrist and a visit to Airedale Hospital. Perhaps this was the mirror that Councillor Quinn refers to? Camnorte

6:48pm Thu 7 Mar 13

dales_man says...

So come on Quin, you cant quote two things
"we’ve had incidents where car wing mirrors have gone missing"
and
"cyclists, sometimes riding three abreast, tore through the village on the National Cycling Route, reaching speeds of 40 to 50mph."
Without any evidence, or are you just anti cyclist and remember there are at least 4 very keen cyclists within a stones throw of where you live.
So come on Quin, you cant quote two things "we’ve had incidents where car wing mirrors have gone missing" and "cyclists, sometimes riding three abreast, tore through the village on the National Cycling Route, reaching speeds of 40 to 50mph." Without any evidence, or are you just anti cyclist and remember there are at least 4 very keen cyclists within a stones throw of where you live. dales_man

7:35pm Thu 7 Mar 13

tomhardie says...

I think the fact that as I'm writing this there are 8 comments defending cyclists, and not a single one sharing Councillor Quinn's viewpoint it may go some may to show how ridiculous this article is.

The force required to knock car wing mirrors off, should it not throw the cyclist off causing serious grazes and fractures, would undoubtedly break an arm/elbow in the process (unless there are an army of unknown angry cyclists carrying hammers around now).

Secondly, a speed of 40 - 50mph on a bike is simply unachievable on all hills in the centre of Embsay due to basic physics, at that speed you have to rely on freewheeling (no pedalling), and on the gradients in Embsay, that is simply not possible due to the enormous amounts of wind resistance (relative to the force of gravity pulling a cyclist downhill). Coming into the village from Skipton is the fastest hill and a speed of no more than 35mphish is achievable, although I may add, due to the nature of the wide road here it is not dangerous to do so. Even should in the eventuality these cyclists manage to reach 40-50mph, even in a 30mph zone I believe I am correct in thinking (although willing to be corrected) that there is no specific speed limit on cycles, and the only way it would be punishable would be a discretionary 'dangerous cycling' offence.

I must also add that even if we were riding at 40-50mph 3 a breast (which is something I have never seen, but my happen), when a cyclist crashes and hits a car, the only injured party is the cyclist who no doubt knows the risks they are undertaking. Whilst I accept hitting a pedestrian at that speed could produce significant consequences, a cyclist travelling at 40mph, is nowhere near as dangerous and threatening as a car at 20, or 30. (To briefly illustrate my point through momentum. A bike travelling at 40mph weighing a total of 100kg has the same amount of energy as a 2000kg car travelling 2mph).

Yet another point both opposing parties are forgetting in this piece, the positive externalities cycling brings. If we falsely assume that cyclists knock off one wing mirror per week, totalling £100 damage. Is this not worth the massively reduced rates of heart disease, diabetes and other obesity related illnesses as a result of a fitter and healthier nation? As well as this, more commuting via bicycle also means reduced social cost through pollution of the air, noise pollution and road deterioration.
As well as this, cycling gives youth not only something to do with their time, but goals to achieve and work towards, keeping them busy would most likely see a reduction in criminal damage and less wing mirrors kicked off by delinquents (okay that's somewhat of a joke but the point remains).

I can only imagine this, quite frankly, joke of an article has come from an angry Mr. Quinn being delayed by a few minutes as he drives past in his unnecessary (due to being under 3 miles from Skipton) fossil fuel powered car. Perhaps I could suggest taking up cycling, losing some weight and embracing what is only going to become a bigger part of life in the Yorkshire Dales.

As a side note, I would welcome more police officers to keep an eye on us 'speeding and being antisocial', perhaps it'll give us some protection from impatient drivers.
Whilst a totally speculative statement, due to statistical probably, I imagine Mr. Quinn also rarely gives the 1.5m specified in the Highway Code when overtaking cyclists on the road between Embsay and Skipton.
I think the fact that as I'm writing this there are 8 comments defending cyclists, and not a single one sharing Councillor Quinn's viewpoint it may go some may to show how ridiculous this article is. The force required to knock car wing mirrors off, should it not throw the cyclist off causing serious grazes and fractures, would undoubtedly break an arm/elbow in the process (unless there are an army of unknown angry cyclists carrying hammers around now). Secondly, a speed of 40 - 50mph on a bike is simply unachievable on all hills in the centre of Embsay due to basic physics, at that speed you have to rely on freewheeling (no pedalling), and on the gradients in Embsay, that is simply not possible due to the enormous amounts of wind resistance (relative to the force of gravity pulling a cyclist downhill). Coming into the village from Skipton is the fastest hill and a speed of no more than 35mphish is achievable, although I may add, due to the nature of the wide road here it is not dangerous to do so. Even should in the eventuality these cyclists manage to reach 40-50mph, even in a 30mph zone I believe I am correct in thinking (although willing to be corrected) that there is no specific speed limit on cycles, and the only way it would be punishable would be a discretionary 'dangerous cycling' offence. I must also add that even if we were riding at 40-50mph 3 a breast (which is something I have never seen, but my happen), when a cyclist crashes and hits a car, the only injured party is the cyclist who no doubt knows the risks they are undertaking. Whilst I accept hitting a pedestrian at that speed could produce significant consequences, a cyclist travelling at 40mph, is nowhere near as dangerous and threatening as a car at 20, or 30. (To briefly illustrate my point through momentum. A bike travelling at 40mph weighing a total of 100kg has the same amount of energy as a 2000kg car travelling 2mph). Yet another point both opposing parties are forgetting in this piece, the positive externalities cycling brings. If we falsely assume that cyclists knock off one wing mirror per week, totalling £100 damage. Is this not worth the massively reduced rates of heart disease, diabetes and other obesity related illnesses as a result of a fitter and healthier nation? As well as this, more commuting via bicycle also means reduced social cost through pollution of the air, noise pollution and road deterioration. As well as this, cycling gives youth not only something to do with their time, but goals to achieve and work towards, keeping them busy would most likely see a reduction in criminal damage and less wing mirrors kicked off by delinquents (okay that's somewhat of a joke but the point remains). I can only imagine this, quite frankly, joke of an article has come from an angry Mr. Quinn being delayed by a few minutes as he drives past in his unnecessary (due to being under 3 miles from Skipton) fossil fuel powered car. Perhaps I could suggest taking up cycling, losing some weight and embracing what is only going to become a bigger part of life in the Yorkshire Dales. As a side note, I would welcome more police officers to keep an eye on us 'speeding and being antisocial', perhaps it'll give us some protection from impatient drivers. Whilst a totally speculative statement, due to statistical probably, I imagine Mr. Quinn also rarely gives the 1.5m specified in the Highway Code when overtaking cyclists on the road between Embsay and Skipton. tomhardie

8:26pm Thu 7 Mar 13

Alibongo001 says...

This is quite a sad piece of non news.

Others above have quite eloquently put the pro cycling case forward, I wont repeat it.

However it is a little sad that someone in a position of influence is so negative about the Tour coming to Yorkshire.

I would have thought that the extra visitors before, during and after the tour would have been a welcome boost for the economy of Yorkshire and this should be encouraged, rather than sensationalist and probably inaccurate statements seemingly aimed at reducing visitors to our county.

I hope that other public figures look to embrace cycling and the Tour rather than the councillors NIMBY approach here
This is quite a sad piece of non news. Others above have quite eloquently put the pro cycling case forward, I wont repeat it. However it is a little sad that someone in a position of influence is so negative about the Tour coming to Yorkshire. I would have thought that the extra visitors before, during and after the tour would have been a welcome boost for the economy of Yorkshire and this should be encouraged, rather than sensationalist and probably inaccurate statements seemingly aimed at reducing visitors to our county. I hope that other public figures look to embrace cycling and the Tour rather than the councillors NIMBY approach here Alibongo001

8:35pm Thu 7 Mar 13

deelite says...

What a whole load of tosh this is! I can't believe this even got published. Sure, there may be a minority of cyclists that break a law, but please do not tar them all with the same brush. By publishing this article you are encouraging people to take a dislike to cyclists putting them more in danger from other road uses. Although not a cyclist myself, I genuinely feel worried when I see riders being overtaken dangerously by quarry trucks on the road to Grassington.
Surely we should be encouraging people to take up exercise and ride bikes in this day and age of obesity and climate change.
I am disgusted with the comments of the Councillor and the Chief Superintendent. I would like to know how much truth there is in this article.
What evidence does the councillor have that cyclists are responsible for the missing car mirrors?
I am really excited about the Tour de France coming to our area. Why can't we be positive for once, instead of always focussing on the negative.
What a whole load of tosh this is! I can't believe this even got published. Sure, there may be a minority of cyclists that break a law, but please do not tar them all with the same brush. By publishing this article you are encouraging people to take a dislike to cyclists putting them more in danger from other road uses. Although not a cyclist myself, I genuinely feel worried when I see riders being overtaken dangerously by quarry trucks on the road to Grassington. Surely we should be encouraging people to take up exercise and ride bikes in this day and age of obesity and climate change. I am disgusted with the comments of the Councillor and the Chief Superintendent. I would like to know how much truth there is in this article. What evidence does the councillor have that cyclists are responsible for the missing car mirrors? I am really excited about the Tour de France coming to our area. Why can't we be positive for once, instead of always focussing on the negative. deelite

10:28pm Thu 7 Mar 13

LizBarrett says...

appy to go under my real name as I am very perturbed that this unsolicited piece of cycling hatred has been allowed to be publish. I live a short step from Mr Quinn, and I have lived in Embsay since 1985. I walked my girls to school here, taught them to ride a bike here and then a car. I have a vested interest in safe roads as I also ride a bike around here and in other areas of the Dales. I feel I am more than equalised to comment on safe cycling. I can honestly say I have never witnessed unsafe riding in the village, whilst I often witness speeding cars through the village.
appy to go under my real name as I am very perturbed that this unsolicited piece of cycling hatred has been allowed to be publish. I live a short step from Mr Quinn, and I have lived in Embsay since 1985. I walked my girls to school here, taught them to ride a bike here and then a car. I have a vested interest in safe roads as I also ride a bike around here and in other areas of the Dales. I feel I am more than equalised to comment on safe cycling. I can honestly say I have never witnessed unsafe riding in the village, whilst I often witness speeding cars through the village. LizBarrett

10:30pm Thu 7 Mar 13

Chesterfieldchappie says...

Wonderful.

What planet is this guy on?

Tell you what Craven, we'll stay away and spend our money locally rather than traveling to your town, staying in a local hotel, having a meal and beer in the evening with my mates and bringing cash to your economy.

Shame on you Mr Quinn, what ever opinion you have of the cyclist, hooligans that we are, it's not close to my opinion of the councillours of Craven.
Wonderful. What planet is this guy on? Tell you what Craven, we'll stay away and spend our money locally rather than traveling to your town, staying in a local hotel, having a meal and beer in the evening with my mates and bringing cash to your economy. Shame on you Mr Quinn, what ever opinion you have of the cyclist, hooligans that we are, it's not close to my opinion of the councillours of Craven. Chesterfieldchappie

10:30pm Thu 7 Mar 13

LizBarrett says...

I am happy to go under my real name as I am very perturbed that this unsolicited piece of cycling hatred has been allowed to be published. I live a short step from Mr Quinn, and I have lived in Embsay since 1985. I have a vested interest in a safe village, I walked my girls to school here, taught them to ride a bike here and then to drive a car. I don’t see it as Mr Quinn does and due to my involvement in the wider cycling community, I feel more than qualified to give a measured response. I am very unsure as to where Mr Quinn got his facts from, we have had our wing mirror knocked off as did our neighbour but it was not by cyclists as the police prosecution will testify. I never see Mr Quinn out walking so how does he justify his observations. Do we have evidence of pedestrians being at risk, I think not?

Then we have Chief Inspector Higgins, on what do you base your statements, surely you can be a little more accurate, or do you too hang in with the “lets pillory cyclists brigade”. I am assuming by the reluctance to prosecute car drivers who hit cyclists, that within North Yorkshire Police this view is institutional and this is possibly the source of your comments.

I challenge the Craven Herald to come back and justify this article or investigate it further. I challenge Mr Quinn to back up his comments; I am more than happy to question him in open chambers, should I be allowed. I challenge Chief Inspector Higgins to show us how motorists have been educated, her words not mine. I am a motorist too why did I not know about this. Maybe she should consider the “Hierarchy of Road Users”, as a starting point for ensuring that the letter of the law is followed.

Have any of you contacted local cycle groups to find out what it can be like riding on busy roads and ways that we can work together cyclists and motorists to make it safer. None of us live in a bubble we are all have to try and harmonise together.

Really Mr Quinn, whilst most of Yorkshire celebrates the Tour coming whether it is from sheer excitement of the race, or the fact that our businesses will be very busy, you act like an ill informed bigot.

We will watch this space and see if any of you takes up my challenges or was another piece of self-seeking sensationalism. If this is Craven Councils ideas of positive Tourism heaven help us.
I am happy to go under my real name as I am very perturbed that this unsolicited piece of cycling hatred has been allowed to be published. I live a short step from Mr Quinn, and I have lived in Embsay since 1985. I have a vested interest in a safe village, I walked my girls to school here, taught them to ride a bike here and then to drive a car. I don’t see it as Mr Quinn does and due to my involvement in the wider cycling community, I feel more than qualified to give a measured response. I am very unsure as to where Mr Quinn got his facts from, we have had our wing mirror knocked off as did our neighbour but it was not by cyclists as the police prosecution will testify. I never see Mr Quinn out walking so how does he justify his observations. Do we have evidence of pedestrians being at risk, I think not? Then we have Chief Inspector Higgins, on what do you base your statements, surely you can be a little more accurate, or do you too hang in with the “lets pillory cyclists brigade”. I am assuming by the reluctance to prosecute car drivers who hit cyclists, that within North Yorkshire Police this view is institutional and this is possibly the source of your comments. I challenge the Craven Herald to come back and justify this article or investigate it further. I challenge Mr Quinn to back up his comments; I am more than happy to question him in open chambers, should I be allowed. I challenge Chief Inspector Higgins to show us how motorists have been educated, her words not mine. I am a motorist too why did I not know about this. Maybe she should consider the “Hierarchy of Road Users”, as a starting point for ensuring that the letter of the law is followed. Have any of you contacted local cycle groups to find out what it can be like riding on busy roads and ways that we can work together cyclists and motorists to make it safer. None of us live in a bubble we are all have to try and harmonise together. Really Mr Quinn, whilst most of Yorkshire celebrates the Tour coming whether it is from sheer excitement of the race, or the fact that our businesses will be very busy, you act like an ill informed bigot. We will watch this space and see if any of you takes up my challenges or was another piece of self-seeking sensationalism. If this is Craven Councils ideas of positive Tourism heaven help us. LizBarrett

11:00pm Thu 7 Mar 13

tomhardie says...

I'd also be interested in an open forum discussion. Perhaps then we could have a properly structured debate which would no doubt show Mr. Quinn how unfounded his opinions are.

Quite frankly, accusing cyclists of riding at 50mph 3 a breast and knocking mirrors off, with no actual proof, is making false accusations endangering local cyclists. I believe it to be totally disgusting that the Craven Herald has published this without contacting any cyclists for any form of rebuttal and simply publishing an article that paints cyclists in a bad light.

If one angry driver cuts it slightly too fine due in part to this fictitious one sided article, that's a potential life lost. Irresponsible and dangerous publishing this. I'd appreciate a voice from the cyclists and an apology from Mr. Quinn, these accusations are totally unsolicited.
I'd also be interested in an open forum discussion. Perhaps then we could have a properly structured debate which would no doubt show Mr. Quinn how unfounded his opinions are. Quite frankly, accusing cyclists of riding at 50mph 3 a breast and knocking mirrors off, with no actual proof, is making false accusations endangering local cyclists. I believe it to be totally disgusting that the Craven Herald has published this without contacting any cyclists for any form of rebuttal and simply publishing an article that paints cyclists in a bad light. If one angry driver cuts it slightly too fine due in part to this fictitious one sided article, that's a potential life lost. Irresponsible and dangerous publishing this. I'd appreciate a voice from the cyclists and an apology from Mr. Quinn, these accusations are totally unsolicited. tomhardie

12:23am Fri 8 Mar 13

tazo101 says...

Whens the next election?
Whens the next election? tazo101

9:21am Fri 8 Mar 13

jonoir says...

Mr Quinn,
The largest town in your district bills itself as ''the gateway to the dales''.
Close the gate and we'll use another way in, The route via Pateley Bridge is fantastic, has great cafe stops and a couple of lovely challenging and relatively traffic free climbs.
That's potentially thousands of cyclists taking their business away from your district, I'm sure your constituents would be delighted.
Please choose your words more carefully in the future.
Mr Quinn, The largest town in your district bills itself as ''the gateway to the dales''. Close the gate and we'll use another way in, The route via Pateley Bridge is fantastic, has great cafe stops and a couple of lovely challenging and relatively traffic free climbs. That's potentially thousands of cyclists taking their business away from your district, I'm sure your constituents would be delighted. Please choose your words more carefully in the future. jonoir

9:28am Fri 8 Mar 13

Tim Ashelford says...

I found this article very depressing. I hope that Councillor Quinn and Chief Inspector Higgins were misquoted, but fear not.

For the last 30 years I have been a regular driver & cyclist, commuting into Leeds and riding up Wharfedale for pleasure.

I do see some cyclists behave badly and also some drivers do the same. I know the bad drivers are far more dangerous. Unfortunately two of my friends have been killed by motorists whilst cycling on Yorkshire roads.

As for the message this article puts out to cyclist thinking of visiting Craven, well it couldn't be worse. Craven has probably some of the best road and off road cycling in England. It is a massive asset that should be promoted and exploited for the good of all.

I hope to see reporting of these positive aspects of cycling in the future.
I found this article very depressing. I hope that Councillor Quinn and Chief Inspector Higgins were misquoted, but fear not. For the last 30 years I have been a regular driver & cyclist, commuting into Leeds and riding up Wharfedale for pleasure. I do see some cyclists behave badly and also some drivers do the same. I know the bad drivers are far more dangerous. Unfortunately two of my friends have been killed by motorists whilst cycling on Yorkshire roads. As for the message this article puts out to cyclist thinking of visiting Craven, well it couldn't be worse. Craven has probably some of the best road and off road cycling in England. It is a massive asset that should be promoted and exploited for the good of all. I hope to see reporting of these positive aspects of cycling in the future. Tim Ashelford

9:42am Fri 8 Mar 13

Skipton Ratepayer says...

He didn't mention the greater problem, that of adult cyclists charging along pavements. Often they are on the pavement next to the 'wrong' side of the road, so when they meet pedestrians, wheelchairs or prams, they can't just go into the road, where they should be in the first place. Last month I heard a bicycle bell (now there's a rarity!) but assumed it was a cyclist greeting someone he knew. Seconds later, he shot past me on the pavement. I told him he should be in the road and he replied 'Well I did ring my bell' - so he, and many others, believed they have a perfect right to be on the pavement. Well they haven't, and I wish a few could be prosecuted to stop the rest of them doing it..
He didn't mention the greater problem, that of adult cyclists charging along pavements. Often they are on the pavement next to the 'wrong' side of the road, so when they meet pedestrians, wheelchairs or prams, they can't just go into the road, where they should be in the first place. Last month I heard a bicycle bell (now there's a rarity!) but assumed it was a cyclist greeting someone he knew. Seconds later, he shot past me on the pavement. I told him he should be in the road and he replied 'Well I did ring my bell' - so he, and many others, believed they have a perfect right to be on the pavement. Well they haven't, and I wish a few could be prosecuted to stop the rest of them doing it.. Skipton Ratepayer

10:09am Fri 8 Mar 13

vharman says...

Mr Quinn what a disappointing read. Is politics not about doing what is best for your community and whether you like it or not that means allowing and even supporting people in their chosen way of life. I wonder why a case for the opposition wasn’t put forward I expect it is because they have a case and in fact you do not (show us some facts), what you say is speculative and in my opinion very one sided. You have more time than I do to research this but it seems you need pointing in the right direction, in my humble opinion there are positive benefits in the following areas: Health, Safety, the economy, community spirit, climate change, stress levels maybe even world peace.

In short I urge you to take your position seriously and compose an accurate paper that takes in both sides of what essentially should not be an argument, heck maybe even gain consensus from your constituents (the people that put you there, lest you forget they can remove you again).

Please consider Mr Quinn that politics is not about individuals it is about harmonisation.

Go away do some real research maybe get on a bike and feel some of your angst melt away that was built up from the drive home (all 3 miles of it). You might find that your fellow travellers actually nod and say hello as opposed to honk and show you a sign, cyclists have a strong sense of community maybe take a little peak and open your mind I dare say we could win you over, I may even buy you a slice of cake.
Mr Quinn what a disappointing read. Is politics not about doing what is best for your community and whether you like it or not that means allowing and even supporting people in their chosen way of life. I wonder why a case for the opposition wasn’t put forward I expect it is because they have a case and in fact you do not (show us some facts), what you say is speculative and in my opinion very one sided. You have more time than I do to research this but it seems you need pointing in the right direction, in my humble opinion there are positive benefits in the following areas: Health, Safety, the economy, community spirit, climate change, stress levels maybe even world peace. In short I urge you to take your position seriously and compose an accurate paper that takes in both sides of what essentially should not be an argument, heck maybe even gain consensus from your constituents (the people that put you there, lest you forget they can remove you again). Please consider Mr Quinn that politics is not about individuals it is about harmonisation. Go away do some real research maybe get on a bike and feel some of your angst melt away that was built up from the drive home (all 3 miles of it). You might find that your fellow travellers actually nod and say hello as opposed to honk and show you a sign, cyclists have a strong sense of community maybe take a little peak and open your mind I dare say we could win you over, I may even buy you a slice of cake. vharman

10:41am Fri 8 Mar 13

Angelfishsolo says...

Most of the aricle just made me laugh but to see Mr Quinn state that cyclists ride at speeds of 40 to 50mph made me almost choke on my tea.

To wit : People have gone well over 40 mph on a "bicycle" (See 1st link), BUT they had fairings on the bike, were behind a vehicle, were going downhill or were "aided" in some other way.

While possible on the flat, it would only be for a very short duration (e.g. a sprint). The fastest time trial on a bike achieved about 33 mph avg over 10 miles (2nd link). Sprints at the end of stages of the TdF have achieved a bit over 40 mph (and that is top professional athletes).

The calculator at the 3rd link estimates that 40 mph (64 kph) requires about 1400 watts of power (mainly to overcome air resistance). Assuming optimum body position and aerodynamic clothing, etc this may be reduced somewhat ... but considering that a top athlete can't maintain more than about 300 watts for any period of time you can see that 40 mph on a normal bike (no fairing, 700C wheels) is going to be VERY difficult to do..
Source(s):
http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Cycling_rec

http://cyclinginfo.c
o.uk/blog/timetrials

http://www.oocities.
org/mdetting/sports/
Most of the aricle just made me laugh but to see Mr Quinn state that cyclists ride at speeds of 40 to 50mph made me almost choke on my tea. To wit : People have gone well over 40 mph on a "bicycle" (See 1st link), BUT they had fairings on the bike, were behind a vehicle, were going downhill or were "aided" in some other way. While possible on the flat, it would only be for a very short duration (e.g. a sprint). The fastest time trial on a bike achieved about 33 mph avg over 10 miles (2nd link). Sprints at the end of stages of the TdF have achieved a bit over 40 mph (and that is top professional athletes). The calculator at the 3rd link estimates that 40 mph (64 kph) requires about 1400 watts of power (mainly to overcome air resistance). Assuming optimum body position and aerodynamic clothing, etc this may be reduced somewhat ... but considering that a top athlete can't maintain more than about 300 watts for any period of time you can see that 40 mph on a normal bike (no fairing, 700C wheels) is going to be VERY difficult to do.. Source(s): http://en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Cycling_rec … http://cyclinginfo.c o.uk/blog/timetrials … http://www.oocities. org/mdetting/sports/ … Angelfishsolo

10:44am Fri 8 Mar 13

matt.cornish says...

I am the editor of the Craven Herald and I'd like to respond to a few people who have questioned why we have carried this story.

Put simply, we try to report on as many public meetings as we can.

We feel it is important that what elected politicians or public servants say in public meetings is recorded and put into the wider public domain.

People need to know what these people are doing and saying on our behalf.
This then gives people a chance to engage with and debate with them.

And we do not take sides in public meetings – we just report what is said.

If we were to ignore stories such as this as some are suggesting, people would be unaware what was being asked for unless they are at a meeting themselves.

We are happy for the matter to be debated on here and on our letters page (but please try to keep personal insults out of it), and we will be looking at doing a reaction piece in next week’s paper too.

It is important to stress the views expressed in the story do not necessarily reflect our own.

Personally I am very excited about the Tour de France coming to Craven and think it is a huge coup for the area, and will also be a massive boost for the local economy.

However, the paper will still carry other views or concerns surrounding cycling, the tour, or whatever really.

Matt Cornish
Editor - Craven Herald & Pioneer
I am the editor of the Craven Herald and I'd like to respond to a few people who have questioned why we have carried this story. Put simply, we try to report on as many public meetings as we can. We feel it is important that what elected politicians or public servants say in public meetings is recorded and put into the wider public domain. People need to know what these people are doing and saying on our behalf. This then gives people a chance to engage with and debate with them. And we do not take sides in public meetings – we just report what is said. If we were to ignore stories such as this as some are suggesting, people would be unaware what was being asked for unless they are at a meeting themselves. We are happy for the matter to be debated on here and on our letters page (but please try to keep personal insults out of it), and we will be looking at doing a reaction piece in next week’s paper too. It is important to stress the views expressed in the story do not necessarily reflect our own. Personally I am very excited about the Tour de France coming to Craven and think it is a huge coup for the area, and will also be a massive boost for the local economy. However, the paper will still carry other views or concerns surrounding cycling, the tour, or whatever really. Matt Cornish Editor - Craven Herald & Pioneer matt.cornish

10:47am Fri 8 Mar 13

Arty42 says...

I would hope like Tim has said above that at best there has been a level of mis-quoting and poor journalism at play here. How can anyone combine all the above facts into one article and expect it to be believable? I think the idea of an open forum an excellent one and the timing couldn't be better.

Could Councillor Quinn represent his ward and get one organised please. It will be well attended I'm sure.

http://www.cravendc.
gov.uk/article/2007/
Councillor-John-Andr
ew-QUINN-Conservativ
e
I would hope like Tim has said above that at best there has been a level of mis-quoting and poor journalism at play here. How can anyone combine all the above facts into one article and expect it to be believable? I think the idea of an open forum an excellent one and the timing couldn't be better. Could Councillor Quinn represent his ward and get one organised please. It will be well attended I'm sure. http://www.cravendc. gov.uk/article/2007/ Councillor-John-Andr ew-QUINN-Conservativ e Arty42

11:27am Fri 8 Mar 13

AmandaHughes14 says...

What a silly man. Clearly clueless about cycling.
But well said by the editor. Can't understand why people are slagging off the paper. All they've done is highlight what the councillor have said. He's showing himself up to be an idiot, don't shoot the messenger.
What a silly man. Clearly clueless about cycling. But well said by the editor. Can't understand why people are slagging off the paper. All they've done is highlight what the councillor have said. He's showing himself up to be an idiot, don't shoot the messenger. AmandaHughes14

11:31am Fri 8 Mar 13

Angelfishsolo says...

AmandaHughes14 wrote:
What a silly man. Clearly clueless about cycling.
But well said by the editor. Can't understand why people are slagging off the paper. All they've done is highlight what the councillor have said. He's showing himself up to be an idiot, don't shoot the messenger.
Agreed. No point in having a go at the Paper and great to see the Editor is a sensible chap.
[quote][p][bold]AmandaHughes14[/bold] wrote: What a silly man. Clearly clueless about cycling. But well said by the editor. Can't understand why people are slagging off the paper. All they've done is highlight what the councillor have said. He's showing himself up to be an idiot, don't shoot the messenger.[/p][/quote]Agreed. No point in having a go at the Paper and great to see the Editor is a sensible chap. Angelfishsolo

11:53am Fri 8 Mar 13

Arty42 says...

Well done the Editor for getting on here, now it's time for them to do some investigative journalism and get to the truth and facts behind what has been said and reported. We have people in public positions reporting to meetings and they need to be accountable for their words, actions and public stance on this issue.
Well done the Editor for getting on here, now it's time for them to do some investigative journalism and get to the truth and facts behind what has been said and reported. We have people in public positions reporting to meetings and they need to be accountable for their words, actions and public stance on this issue. Arty42

12:05pm Fri 8 Mar 13

matt_v says...

This article presents quotes from two authority figures: a councillor and a police Chief Superintendent.

They state that "packs of cyclists, sometimes riding three abreast, tore through the village on the National Cycling Route, reaching speeds of 40 to 50mph."

They also state that "we’ve had incidents where car wing mirrors have gone missing."

Consider a reader who has zero knowledge of cycling. He/she may not appreciate how unlikely these claims are and, seeing them come from authority figures, take them to be 100% fact.

If he/she is also a motorist who gets annoyed when delayed by cyclists, these new "facts" may only serve to criminalise cyclists, fuelling anti-cyclist feeling and making him/her feel justified in harsher actions towards cyclists who he/she perceives to have held her up unreasonably.

This is how many cyclists are injured or killed.

These are the potential knock-on effects of publishing such an article without balance, or consideration of the accuracy of opinions reported.

The Councillor may be the real villain here but few would take notice if his words were not reported, and reported unopposed.
This article presents quotes from two authority figures: a councillor and a police Chief Superintendent. They state that "packs of cyclists, sometimes riding three abreast, tore through the village on the National Cycling Route, reaching speeds of 40 to 50mph." They also state that "we’ve had incidents where car wing mirrors have gone missing." Consider a reader who has zero knowledge of cycling. He/she may not appreciate how unlikely these claims are and, seeing them come from authority figures, take them to be 100% fact. If he/she is also a motorist who gets annoyed when delayed by cyclists, these new "facts" may only serve to criminalise cyclists, fuelling anti-cyclist feeling and making him/her feel justified in harsher actions towards cyclists who he/she perceives to have held her up unreasonably. This is how many cyclists are injured or killed. These are the potential knock-on effects of publishing such an article without balance, or consideration of the accuracy of opinions reported. The Councillor may be the real villain here but few would take notice if his words were not reported, and reported unopposed. matt_v

12:13pm Fri 8 Mar 13

HerbieGreen says...

CSPhotos wrote:
Does Mr Quinn have any evidence of riders riding through Embsay 3 a breast at 40 - 50mph? With regard to wing mirrors going missing I would suggest the logging trucks which squeeze through the village might be more to blame. A cyclist knocking off a wing mirror is very unlikley to happen as it would cause injury to the rider.

Skipton has found itself in the enviable position of being on the route of the Tour De France, the biggest annual sporting event in the world.
Its dissappointing that this non-story has got any coverage whatsoever.
Superb!
[quote][p][bold]CSPhotos[/bold] wrote: Does Mr Quinn have any evidence of riders riding through Embsay 3 a breast at 40 - 50mph? With regard to wing mirrors going missing I would suggest the logging trucks which squeeze through the village might be more to blame. A cyclist knocking off a wing mirror is very unlikley to happen as it would cause injury to the rider. Skipton has found itself in the enviable position of being on the route of the Tour De France, the biggest annual sporting event in the world. Its dissappointing that this non-story has got any coverage whatsoever.[/p][/quote]Superb! HerbieGreen

12:20pm Fri 8 Mar 13

HerbieGreen says...

Skipton Ratepayer wrote:
He didn't mention the greater problem, that of adult cyclists charging along pavements. Often they are on the pavement next to the 'wrong' side of the road, so when they meet pedestrians, wheelchairs or prams, they can't just go into the road, where they should be in the first place. Last month I heard a bicycle bell (now there's a rarity!) but assumed it was a cyclist greeting someone he knew. Seconds later, he shot past me on the pavement. I told him he should be in the road and he replied 'Well I did ring my bell' - so he, and many others, believed they have a perfect right to be on the pavement. Well they haven't, and I wish a few could be prosecuted to stop the rest of them doing it..
Now here's someone with a genuine issue - this is something that should be stopped. Of course most of the 'adult cyclists' they are talking about will be casual bicycle users going short distances, as any serious cyclist wouldn't consider the pavement a proper or desirable place to ride. However, this comment just shows the Councillor's up for the prejudice it reveals.
[quote][p][bold]Skipton Ratepayer[/bold] wrote: He didn't mention the greater problem, that of adult cyclists charging along pavements. Often they are on the pavement next to the 'wrong' side of the road, so when they meet pedestrians, wheelchairs or prams, they can't just go into the road, where they should be in the first place. Last month I heard a bicycle bell (now there's a rarity!) but assumed it was a cyclist greeting someone he knew. Seconds later, he shot past me on the pavement. I told him he should be in the road and he replied 'Well I did ring my bell' - so he, and many others, believed they have a perfect right to be on the pavement. Well they haven't, and I wish a few could be prosecuted to stop the rest of them doing it..[/p][/quote]Now here's someone with a genuine issue - this is something that should be stopped. Of course most of the 'adult cyclists' they are talking about will be casual bicycle users going short distances, as any serious cyclist wouldn't consider the pavement a proper or desirable place to ride. However, this comment just shows the Councillor's up for the prejudice it reveals. HerbieGreen

12:40pm Fri 8 Mar 13

CSPhotos says...

A more balanced piece of journalism would be more responsible, what about giving two sides to the debate in the same issue in the interest of fairness?

Or at least ask a cyclist or cycling club for their opinion in the same issue.

Cyclists aren't a minority anymore as can be seen from the above comments, they are voters and newspaper buyers too. The article adds fuel to the cyclist hating motorists fire. Aside from the Councillors ridiculous comments this reporting is a very dangerous and irresponsible game to play. All cyclists from Professional riders, who ride their bike everyday for a living, to young children suffer from poorly educated motorists on a daily basis whether its giving single file riders no space when passing, cutting up or blowing horn right behind a rider. This is a daily occurrence even on our relatively quiet roads. I am not saying that all cyclist are angels, there are a tiny minority who don't behave as well as the vast majority.

For a none-story, this has generated some debate!

Worth remembering too, there are towns in Lancashire who would have loved to have got the Tour De France...
A more balanced piece of journalism would be more responsible, what about giving two sides to the debate in the same issue in the interest of fairness? Or at least ask a cyclist or cycling club for their opinion in the same issue. Cyclists aren't a minority anymore as can be seen from the above comments, they are voters and newspaper buyers too. The article adds fuel to the cyclist hating motorists fire. Aside from the Councillors ridiculous comments this reporting is a very dangerous and irresponsible game to play. All cyclists from Professional riders, who ride their bike everyday for a living, to young children suffer from poorly educated motorists on a daily basis whether its giving single file riders no space when passing, cutting up or blowing horn right behind a rider. This is a daily occurrence even on our relatively quiet roads. I am not saying that all cyclist are angels, there are a tiny minority who don't behave as well as the vast majority. For a none-story, this has generated some debate! Worth remembering too, there are towns in Lancashire who would have loved to have got the Tour De France... CSPhotos

12:56pm Fri 8 Mar 13

AmandaHughes14 says...

So many missing the point here.
This isnt abotu the paper. Its about the councils attitude towards cyclists.
It isnt pretending to be a balanced story. As the editor says, it is a repot of what was said in a meeting.
And their doing a piece next week about it too.
Wasting energy by attacking the
mee-dya (very trendy bandwagon to jump on that it is) weakens your points. This is hardly the daily mail now is it?
So aim your fire where its needed.
I'm a cyclist, I'm cross with the councillor and police and will be writing to them.
Or maybe youd be happier if they didnt write stories which migh upset people?
Then we could have police cracking down on us without realising most people think the councillor is speaking nonnsesne.
So many missing the point here. This isnt abotu the paper. Its about the councils attitude towards cyclists. It isnt pretending to be a balanced story. As the editor says, it is a repot of what was said in a meeting. And their doing a piece next week about it too. Wasting energy by attacking the mee-dya (very trendy bandwagon to jump on that it is) weakens your points. This is hardly the daily mail now is it? So aim your fire where its needed. I'm a cyclist, I'm cross with the councillor and police and will be writing to them. Or maybe youd be happier if they didnt write stories which migh upset people? Then we could have police cracking down on us without realising most people think the councillor is speaking nonnsesne. AmandaHughes14

1:01pm Fri 8 Mar 13

plastic100 says...

Respect to the editor for making his case, and interesting to see quite a few locals unhappy about the quotes.

This is certainly newsworthy, because this man is an elected representative of the local population. At some point a majority voted for him, despite the fact that he appears to be happy spouting facts which are clearly untrue, and indeed nonsense, to advance some agenda, the purpose of which is less clear.
Respect to the editor for making his case, and interesting to see quite a few locals unhappy about the quotes. This is certainly newsworthy, because this man is an elected representative of the local population. At some point a majority voted for him, despite the fact that he appears to be happy spouting facts which are clearly untrue, and indeed nonsense, to advance some agenda, the purpose of which is less clear. plastic100

1:12pm Fri 8 Mar 13

airbag says...

Maybe Councillor Andy Quinn should get on a bike himself, instead of directing mindless hate towards the people generously saving us NHS money by not becoming obese globs dependent on a tonne of fossil-powered metal to get to the supermarket.
Maybe Councillor Andy Quinn should get on a bike himself, instead of directing mindless hate towards the people generously saving us NHS money by not becoming obese globs dependent on a tonne of fossil-powered metal to get to the supermarket. airbag

3:00pm Fri 8 Mar 13

Peowpeowpeowlasers says...

It's plain to see that Councillor Quin has absolutely no knowledge of cycling or road safety. To suggest that any cyclist could reach 40-50mph through such tight streets is sheer lunacy.

It's quite possible for a cyclist to knock a door mirror off, but very few would ever risk breaking their collarbone to do so. If mirrors are being knocked off, you can guarantee it's being done by other vehicles.

Councillor, I suggest you buy a bicycle and ride it. You'll live longer and be less angry. And perhaps, less prone to making a complete idiot of yourself, as you have here.
It's plain to see that Councillor Quin has absolutely no knowledge of cycling or road safety. To suggest that any cyclist could reach 40-50mph through such tight streets is sheer lunacy. It's quite possible for a cyclist to knock a door mirror off, but very few would ever risk breaking their collarbone to do so. If mirrors are being knocked off, you can guarantee it's being done by other vehicles. Councillor, I suggest you buy a bicycle and ride it. You'll live longer and be less angry. And perhaps, less prone to making a complete idiot of yourself, as you have here. Peowpeowpeowlasers

3:24pm Fri 8 Mar 13

batfink76 says...

I have signed up specifically to comment on this story; I am part of a cycling club that intends to ride the two Tour de France stage routes in the near future. We aren't local, so we will be staying over, enjoying a nice evening in a pub, and due to the calories burned by riding long distances, will need to eat a serious amount of food throughout both days. Clearly, we aren't welcome in Embsay, so I'll make sure we go elsewhere.

(Actually, I'm torn, because all the commenter's above sound like nice, logical people complete with brain cells!)

Oh, and I can't even imagine the pain/crash it would cause to take a wing mirror off when passing a vehicle, believe me it won't be the cyclists.
I have signed up specifically to comment on this story; I am part of a cycling club that intends to ride the two Tour de France stage routes in the near future. We aren't local, so we will be staying over, enjoying a nice evening in a pub, and due to the calories burned by riding long distances, will need to eat a serious amount of food throughout both days. Clearly, we aren't welcome in Embsay, so I'll make sure we go elsewhere. (Actually, I'm torn, because all the commenter's above sound like nice, logical people complete with brain cells!) Oh, and I can't even imagine the pain/crash it would cause to take a wing mirror off when passing a vehicle, believe me it won't be the cyclists. batfink76

5:31pm Fri 8 Mar 13

dales_man says...

batfink76 wrote:
I have signed up specifically to comment on this story; I am part of a cycling club that intends to ride the two Tour de France stage routes in the near future. We aren't local, so we will be staying over, enjoying a nice evening in a pub, and due to the calories burned by riding long distances, will need to eat a serious amount of food throughout both days. Clearly, we aren't welcome in Embsay, so I'll make sure we go elsewhere.

(Actually, I'm torn, because all the commenter's above sound like nice, logical people complete with brain cells!)

Oh, and I can't even imagine the pain/crash it would cause to take a wing mirror off when passing a vehicle, believe me it won't be the cyclists.
You are welcome to call by my spot any time, the other 20+ cyclists that live in the village, I know personally, would also make you welcome.
We are a very mixed bunch from leisure cyclists to World Champions on the track, rest assured though that we wont expect you to keep up to our 40 - 50 MPH
:-)
[quote][p][bold]batfink76[/bold] wrote: I have signed up specifically to comment on this story; I am part of a cycling club that intends to ride the two Tour de France stage routes in the near future. We aren't local, so we will be staying over, enjoying a nice evening in a pub, and due to the calories burned by riding long distances, will need to eat a serious amount of food throughout both days. Clearly, we aren't welcome in Embsay, so I'll make sure we go elsewhere. (Actually, I'm torn, because all the commenter's above sound like nice, logical people complete with brain cells!) Oh, and I can't even imagine the pain/crash it would cause to take a wing mirror off when passing a vehicle, believe me it won't be the cyclists.[/p][/quote]You are welcome to call by my spot any time, the other 20+ cyclists that live in the village, I know personally, would also make you welcome. We are a very mixed bunch from leisure cyclists to World Champions on the track, rest assured though that we wont expect you to keep up to our 40 - 50 MPH :-) dales_man

5:39pm Fri 8 Mar 13

MikeWatson says...

This is interesting because I rode through Embsay about 10 days ago and coming down the hill out of the village towards Skipton I had a close call with someone who pulled out of a road on the right in front of me. It could have been closer were it not for the fact that it's happened at that junction before so I'm wary of it. I couldn't help thinking that if I had been in a large goods vehicle travelling at the same speed (around 25mph) he wouldn't have pulled out.

And temporary traffic lights - I would challenge both the Councillor and the CInsp to get from one end of the system to the other on a cycle before the lights changed. I didn't make it, and I did try.
This is interesting because I rode through Embsay about 10 days ago and coming down the hill out of the village towards Skipton I had a close call with someone who pulled out of a road on the right in front of me. It could have been closer were it not for the fact that it's happened at that junction before so I'm wary of it. I couldn't help thinking that if I had been in a large goods vehicle travelling at the same speed (around 25mph) he wouldn't have pulled out. And temporary traffic lights - I would challenge both the Councillor and the CInsp to get from one end of the system to the other on a cycle before the lights changed. I didn't make it, and I did try. MikeWatson

6:15pm Fri 8 Mar 13

dales_man says...

Oh the harm a couple of ill informed people can do to a community, where are you now Ms Higgins and Mr Quinn ?

http://road.cc/conte
nt/news/77860-tour-y
orkshire%E2%80%A6%C2
%A0not-everyones-hap
py-about-expected-in
flux-cyclists
Oh the harm a couple of ill informed people can do to a community, where are you now Ms Higgins and Mr Quinn ? http://road.cc/conte nt/news/77860-tour-y orkshire%E2%80%A6%C2 %A0not-everyones-hap py-about-expected-in flux-cyclists dales_man

6:37pm Fri 8 Mar 13

LizBarrett says...

Thank you Editor for agreeing to do a reaction piece next week, I am sure that will be very welcome. Happy to supply information.... we even have Strava recordings showing that cyclists really do cycle well within the speed limits. This story has made me furious, that our lovely village has been painted so to the rest of the country. However I do realise that we need to use the correct channels to rectify this, one way would be to write to Mr Quinn via his public email address which is as follows: andygill.quinn@virgi
n.net
Thank you Editor for agreeing to do a reaction piece next week, I am sure that will be very welcome. Happy to supply information.... we even have Strava recordings showing that cyclists really do cycle well within the speed limits. This story has made me furious, that our lovely village has been painted so to the rest of the country. However I do realise that we need to use the correct channels to rectify this, one way would be to write to Mr Quinn via his public email address which is as follows: andygill.quinn@virgi n.net LizBarrett

7:35pm Fri 8 Mar 13

normski9 says...

Some very poor baseless assumptions and comments by Councillor Quinn and Ch Supt Higgins that not only try to alienate cyclists but also the population of Embsay. A few years ago i was lucky to cycle in the area with some of Skipton CC and we stopped in Elm Tree Inn and Cavendish Arms for some great food and drink. The people were warm friendly and welcoming, nothing like Mr Quinn. Please do not mistake the majority of people in this lovely place for the same kind of intolerant fool that Mr Quinn is.
How about the pub being renamed the 'Mark' Cavendish Arms when Le Tour passes, would certainly get a lot of cyclists contributing to the local community. I'm certain that they would also help search for any missing wing mirrors!
Some very poor baseless assumptions and comments by Councillor Quinn and Ch Supt Higgins that not only try to alienate cyclists but also the population of Embsay. A few years ago i was lucky to cycle in the area with some of Skipton CC and we stopped in Elm Tree Inn and Cavendish Arms for some great food and drink. The people were warm friendly and welcoming, nothing like Mr Quinn. Please do not mistake the majority of people in this lovely place for the same kind of intolerant fool that Mr Quinn is. How about the pub being renamed the 'Mark' Cavendish Arms when Le Tour passes, would certainly get a lot of cyclists contributing to the local community. I'm certain that they would also help search for any missing wing mirrors! normski9

8:27pm Fri 8 Mar 13

stephenfirth says...

It's very good of the editor to explain why they carried the article but I thought it was good journalism to get both sides of the argument. This article reads as being very one sided.
It's very good of the editor to explain why they carried the article but I thought it was good journalism to get both sides of the argument. This article reads as being very one sided. stephenfirth

9:51pm Fri 8 Mar 13

Tricky2009 says...

Sad really......I am always disappointed by this kind of biggoted attitude.
Sad really......I am always disappointed by this kind of biggoted attitude. Tricky2009

10:05pm Fri 8 Mar 13

D.Cameron says...

Well done Andy for speaking out against the menace of packs of 20-30 cyclists clogging our roads up.
Just trying to get home from work is a nightmare and these jumped up lycra stalinists have no consideration for other in their pursuit.
Well done Andy for speaking out against the menace of packs of 20-30 cyclists clogging our roads up. Just trying to get home from work is a nightmare and these jumped up lycra stalinists have no consideration for other in their pursuit. D.Cameron

10:40pm Fri 8 Mar 13

Nick Waggett says...

I think something the Editor is missing is that the comments of the Councillor and Police officer amount to incitement to violence against cyclists. There are many motorists who need little encouragement to act in dangerous ways towards cyclists and this feels like a green light from people in authority to take the "law breaking" cyclists off the roads before it's too late. Would the paper have printed such obvious untruths and provocative statements against any other group of people without questioning them in some way? The news story here is that two people in power have wilfully attacked a group of vulnerable road users (as defined in the highway code) and they should not be allowed to voice these dangerous views without challenge.
I think something the Editor is missing is that the comments of the Councillor and Police officer amount to incitement to violence against cyclists. There are many motorists who need little encouragement to act in dangerous ways towards cyclists and this feels like a green light from people in authority to take the "law breaking" cyclists off the roads before it's too late. Would the paper have printed such obvious untruths and provocative statements against any other group of people without questioning them in some way? The news story here is that two people in power have wilfully attacked a group of vulnerable road users (as defined in the highway code) and they should not be allowed to voice these dangerous views without challenge. Nick Waggett

11:40pm Fri 8 Mar 13

deelite says...

Nick Waggett wrote:
I think something the Editor is missing is that the comments of the Councillor and Police officer amount to incitement to violence against cyclists. There are many motorists who need little encouragement to act in dangerous ways towards cyclists and this feels like a green light from people in authority to take the "law breaking" cyclists off the roads before it's too late. Would the paper have printed such obvious untruths and provocative statements against any other group of people without questioning them in some way? The news story here is that two people in power have wilfully attacked a group of vulnerable road users (as defined in the highway code) and they should not be allowed to voice these dangerous views without challenge.
Well said, Nick Waggett. My sentiments exactly!

The Paper is right to report council meetings, but this report seemed so one-sided and almost sensationalistic.

I will be writing to the Councillor and the Chief Superintendent for their response.

For those cyclists coming to Yorkshire, I would like to say that Embsay isn't actually on the route of the tour. It is, however, not too far from Skipton and is a beautiful village. Please don't let some idiotic comments stop you from visiting.
[quote][p][bold]Nick Waggett[/bold] wrote: I think something the Editor is missing is that the comments of the Councillor and Police officer amount to incitement to violence against cyclists. There are many motorists who need little encouragement to act in dangerous ways towards cyclists and this feels like a green light from people in authority to take the "law breaking" cyclists off the roads before it's too late. Would the paper have printed such obvious untruths and provocative statements against any other group of people without questioning them in some way? The news story here is that two people in power have wilfully attacked a group of vulnerable road users (as defined in the highway code) and they should not be allowed to voice these dangerous views without challenge.[/p][/quote]Well said, Nick Waggett. My sentiments exactly! The Paper is right to report council meetings, but this report seemed so one-sided and almost sensationalistic. I will be writing to the Councillor and the Chief Superintendent for their response. For those cyclists coming to Yorkshire, I would like to say that Embsay isn't actually on the route of the tour. It is, however, not too far from Skipton and is a beautiful village. Please don't let some idiotic comments stop you from visiting. deelite

9:47am Sat 9 Mar 13

FNS-man says...

D.Cameron wrote:
Well done Andy for speaking out against the menace of packs of 20-30 cyclists clogging our roads up.
Just trying to get home from work is a nightmare and these jumped up lycra stalinists have no consideration for other in their pursuit.
Yes, the problem on the roads is clearly cyclists:

http://www.cravenher
ald.co.uk/archive/20
13/03/05/Bradford+Ne
ws+%28bradford_news%
29/10266211.Speeding
_Girlington_driver_i
s_spared_jail_after_
injuring_West_Bowlin
g_vicar/

http://www.cravenher
ald.co.uk/archive/20
13/02/26/Bradford+Ne
ws+%28bradford_news%
29/10250786.Driver_f
rom_JCT600_is_killed
_in_accident_on_Rool
ey_Lane_in_Bradford/


http://www.cravenher
ald.co.uk/archive/20
13/02/07/Bradford+Ne
ws+%28bradford_news%
29/10214498.Hit_run_
driver_jailed_for_ki
lling_Bradford_schoo
lboy/

http://www.cravenher
ald.co.uk/archive/20
13/01/31/Ilkley+%26+
Wharfedale+News+%28i
lkwharfe_news%29/101
97039.Police_bid_to_
identify_fatal_crash
_victim_from_Otley/
[quote][p][bold]D.Cameron[/bold] wrote: Well done Andy for speaking out against the menace of packs of 20-30 cyclists clogging our roads up. Just trying to get home from work is a nightmare and these jumped up lycra stalinists have no consideration for other in their pursuit.[/p][/quote]Yes, the problem on the roads is clearly cyclists: http://www.cravenher ald.co.uk/archive/20 13/03/05/Bradford+Ne ws+%28bradford_news% 29/10266211.Speeding _Girlington_driver_i s_spared_jail_after_ injuring_West_Bowlin g_vicar/ http://www.cravenher ald.co.uk/archive/20 13/02/26/Bradford+Ne ws+%28bradford_news% 29/10250786.Driver_f rom_JCT600_is_killed _in_accident_on_Rool ey_Lane_in_Bradford/ http://www.cravenher ald.co.uk/archive/20 13/02/07/Bradford+Ne ws+%28bradford_news% 29/10214498.Hit_run_ driver_jailed_for_ki lling_Bradford_schoo lboy/ http://www.cravenher ald.co.uk/archive/20 13/01/31/Ilkley+%26+ Wharfedale+News+%28i lkwharfe_news%29/101 97039.Police_bid_to_ identify_fatal_crash _victim_from_Otley/ FNS-man

9:51am Sat 9 Mar 13

Angelfishsolo says...

Just a thought but didn't the area bid for the TdF to travel through these towns?
Just a thought but didn't the area bid for the TdF to travel through these towns? Angelfishsolo

10:59am Sat 9 Mar 13

LizBarrett says...

D.Cameron wrote:
Well done Andy for speaking out against the menace of packs of 20-30 cyclists clogging our roads up.
Just trying to get home from work is a nightmare and these jumped up lycra stalinists have no consideration for other in their pursuit.
Dear D Cameron,

Using a cycling monitor is a way cyclists measure their performance, their heart rate and other parameters, It is also a way the cycling community shares its routes etc on various websites. We have one such log for Embsay and I can tell you now that the highest is well within the speed limit. It would be dangerous for the cyclist to speed through Embsay and actually near impossible. Even if we were lucky enough to have the TDF riders going through our village, they would not reach the speeds you are quoting. So you were held up for a few minutes due to cyclists, were you held up because of pedestrians or cars on another day. Do you just want the road to yourself. Come on lets talk about road safety for everyone, kids going to school, cyclists and motorists everyone. Actually when you say "our" roads do you mean roads only for cars. I think not D Cameron the history and "hierarchy of road use" shows a completely different picture.
[quote][p][bold]D.Cameron[/bold] wrote: Well done Andy for speaking out against the menace of packs of 20-30 cyclists clogging our roads up. Just trying to get home from work is a nightmare and these jumped up lycra stalinists have no consideration for other in their pursuit.[/p][/quote]Dear D Cameron, Using a cycling monitor is a way cyclists measure their performance, their heart rate and other parameters, It is also a way the cycling community shares its routes etc on various websites. We have one such log for Embsay and I can tell you now that the highest is well within the speed limit. It would be dangerous for the cyclist to speed through Embsay and actually near impossible. Even if we were lucky enough to have the TDF riders going through our village, they would not reach the speeds you are quoting. So you were held up for a few minutes due to cyclists, were you held up because of pedestrians or cars on another day. Do you just want the road to yourself. Come on lets talk about road safety for everyone, kids going to school, cyclists and motorists everyone. Actually when you say "our" roads do you mean roads only for cars. I think not D Cameron the history and "hierarchy of road use" shows a completely different picture. LizBarrett

11:17am Sat 9 Mar 13

dales_man says...

D.Cameron wrote:
Well done Andy for speaking out against the menace of packs of 20-30 cyclists clogging our roads up.
Just trying to get home from work is a nightmare and these jumped up lycra stalinists have no consideration for other in their pursuit.
So another ill informed bigot,
"Our Roads"
so who is this "Our" whose roads they are ?
Any one worth their salt would know the roads are there for everyone.
As for Stalinist, arent they the ones who advocate The bureaucratic, authoritarian exercise of state power, Ive never seen Quinn in Lycra.
So another ill informed quote from as I said an Ill informed bigot.
[quote][p][bold]D.Cameron[/bold] wrote: Well done Andy for speaking out against the menace of packs of 20-30 cyclists clogging our roads up. Just trying to get home from work is a nightmare and these jumped up lycra stalinists have no consideration for other in their pursuit.[/p][/quote]So another ill informed bigot, "Our Roads" so who is this "Our" whose roads they are ? Any one worth their salt would know the roads are there for everyone. As for Stalinist, arent they the ones who advocate The bureaucratic, authoritarian exercise of state power, Ive never seen Quinn in Lycra. So another ill informed quote from as I said an Ill informed bigot. dales_man

3:56pm Sat 9 Mar 13

Skip dale chap says...

I'm stunned by the irresponsible comments by our Craven Councillor Quinn who is clearly expressing a personal opinion which is totally ill informed. I'm assuming he's a non cyclist!
What's more concerning are the comments from the police. There job is to protect and serve the community of Craven not join in to cast aspursions on groups of (on the whole) law abiding groups of cyclists.
Accusations made in the article do nothing to encourage road safety...perhaps exactly the opposite. As a cyclist myself and member of a local club I find this incredibly offensive.
I excuse Andy Quinn as he clearly is not educated on the subject of cycling or road safety but for a Senior Police officer to agree with such nonsense is incredible.
Alison Higgins should be called to account by North Yorkshire Police as she needs to promote road safety for all users......
What next? Will I be locked up for cycling along in a suspicious manner? Fined for wearing bright Lycra in a built up area?
...and I assume that this is the officer and councillor that will welcome Le Tour....can't wait....Wiggo arrested for speeding, or knocking off wing mirrors perhaps?
I'm stunned by the irresponsible comments by our Craven Councillor Quinn who is clearly expressing a personal opinion which is totally ill informed. I'm assuming he's a non cyclist! What's more concerning are the comments from the police. There job is to protect and serve the community of Craven not join in to cast aspursions on groups of (on the whole) law abiding groups of cyclists. Accusations made in the article do nothing to encourage road safety...perhaps exactly the opposite. As a cyclist myself and member of a local club I find this incredibly offensive. I excuse Andy Quinn as he clearly is not educated on the subject of cycling or road safety but for a Senior Police officer to agree with such nonsense is incredible. Alison Higgins should be called to account by North Yorkshire Police as she needs to promote road safety for all users...... What next? Will I be locked up for cycling along in a suspicious manner? Fined for wearing bright Lycra in a built up area? ...and I assume that this is the officer and councillor that will welcome Le Tour....can't wait....Wiggo arrested for speeding, or knocking off wing mirrors perhaps? Skip dale chap

4:00pm Sat 9 Mar 13

Angelfishsolo says...

Maybe a campaign to get all of the riders to turn there backs on Quinn is in order?
Maybe a campaign to get all of the riders to turn there backs on Quinn is in order? Angelfishsolo

7:01pm Sat 9 Mar 13

londoncyclist says...

Fortunately a well known cycling website has brought this to a wider audience, and I'm quite happy to make very sure that my hard earned money stays far away from ill informed Councillor Andy Quinn's little world.
Why would I want to visit and/ or spend money in an area where elected officials and police officers have made it clear that I'm not welcome. So I won't, its no skin off my nose, and somewhere else will be benefiting.
Fortunately a well known cycling website has brought this to a wider audience, and I'm quite happy to make very sure that my hard earned money stays far away from ill informed Councillor Andy Quinn's little world. Why would I want to visit and/ or spend money in an area where elected officials and police officers have made it clear that I'm not welcome. So I won't, its no skin off my nose, and somewhere else will be benefiting. londoncyclist

8:47pm Sat 9 Mar 13

Mart56 says...

londoncyclist wrote:
Fortunately a well known cycling website has brought this to a wider audience, and I'm quite happy to make very sure that my hard earned money stays far away from ill informed Councillor Andy Quinn's little world.
Why would I want to visit and/ or spend money in an area where elected officials and police officers have made it clear that I'm not welcome. So I won't, its no skin off my nose, and somewhere else will be benefiting.
Londoncyclist- please don't let the comments of one idiotic councillor deter you from visiting this lovely area. You will be made welcome by 99.9% of the population. I can assure you that Councillor Quinn's comments do not represent the views of his constituents. If you do visit craven you will find some fantastic cycling routes and plenty of fiendly places to stay.
[quote][p][bold]londoncyclist[/bold] wrote: Fortunately a well known cycling website has brought this to a wider audience, and I'm quite happy to make very sure that my hard earned money stays far away from ill informed Councillor Andy Quinn's little world. Why would I want to visit and/ or spend money in an area where elected officials and police officers have made it clear that I'm not welcome. So I won't, its no skin off my nose, and somewhere else will be benefiting.[/p][/quote]Londoncyclist- please don't let the comments of one idiotic councillor deter you from visiting this lovely area. You will be made welcome by 99.9% of the population. I can assure you that Councillor Quinn's comments do not represent the views of his constituents. If you do visit craven you will find some fantastic cycling routes and plenty of fiendly places to stay. Mart56

9:16pm Sat 9 Mar 13

Mart56 says...

londoncyclist wrote:
Fortunately a well known cycling website has brought this to a wider audience, and I'm quite happy to make very sure that my hard earned money stays far away from ill informed Councillor Andy Quinn's little world.
Why would I want to visit and/ or spend money in an area where elected officials and police officers have made it clear that I'm not welcome. So I won't, its no skin off my nose, and somewhere else will be benefiting.
If you do decide to visit you won't need to bring any spare tyres with you. Councillors have plenty!
[quote][p][bold]londoncyclist[/bold] wrote: Fortunately a well known cycling website has brought this to a wider audience, and I'm quite happy to make very sure that my hard earned money stays far away from ill informed Councillor Andy Quinn's little world. Why would I want to visit and/ or spend money in an area where elected officials and police officers have made it clear that I'm not welcome. So I won't, its no skin off my nose, and somewhere else will be benefiting.[/p][/quote]If you do decide to visit you won't need to bring any spare tyres with you. Councillors have plenty! Mart56

8:39pm Sun 10 Mar 13

profdt says...

Well all I can say is congratulations to whoever organised this ride. Whoever it was managed to bring the best group cyclists in the World to Embsay (they would have to be at that level to achieve those speeds) when they should have been engaged in highly lucrative races in Argentina, Oman and Qatar. In addition we are asked to believe that these guys, all of whom earn in excess of £1 million a year are stupid enough to risk their livelihood by riding into parked cars. The Councillor should take over from Enid Blyton and see if he can write any Noddy stories, as he is clearly good at creating fiction.
Well all I can say is congratulations to whoever organised this ride. Whoever it was managed to bring the best group cyclists in the World to Embsay (they would have to be at that level to achieve those speeds) when they should have been engaged in highly lucrative races in Argentina, Oman and Qatar. In addition we are asked to believe that these guys, all of whom earn in excess of £1 million a year are stupid enough to risk their livelihood by riding into parked cars. The Councillor should take over from Enid Blyton and see if he can write any Noddy stories, as he is clearly good at creating fiction. profdt

9:14am Mon 11 Mar 13

AmandaHughes14 says...

Nick Waggett wrote:
I think something the Editor is missing is that the comments of the Councillor and Police officer amount to incitement to violence against cyclists. There are many motorists who need little encouragement to act in dangerous ways towards cyclists and this feels like a green light from people in authority to take the "law breaking" cyclists off the roads before it's too late. Would the paper have printed such obvious untruths and provocative statements against any other group of people without questioning them in some way? The news story here is that two people in power have wilfully attacked a group of vulnerable road users (as defined in the highway code) and they should not be allowed to voice these dangerous views without challenge.
What silly nonsense. Calm down please and get some perspective!!!

Nobody is "incitement to violence" at all.
There is some pathetic and shrill knee-jerking nonsense goign on here.

Just because someone disagrees with yuou in a debate doesnt mean you should attack them and start seeing nonsene which isn't there.

The councillor is clearly ill informed but there ARE cyclyists out there who ride badly and give the rest of us a bad name

So try debating intelligently. All you are achieving with this bleeding heart over teh top outrage is confirming in the minds of the anti cyclsits that we're a bunch of militant, self righteous troublemakers
[quote][p][bold]Nick Waggett[/bold] wrote: I think something the Editor is missing is that the comments of the Councillor and Police officer amount to incitement to violence against cyclists. There are many motorists who need little encouragement to act in dangerous ways towards cyclists and this feels like a green light from people in authority to take the "law breaking" cyclists off the roads before it's too late. Would the paper have printed such obvious untruths and provocative statements against any other group of people without questioning them in some way? The news story here is that two people in power have wilfully attacked a group of vulnerable road users (as defined in the highway code) and they should not be allowed to voice these dangerous views without challenge.[/p][/quote]What silly nonsense. Calm down please and get some perspective!!! Nobody is "incitement to violence" at all. There is some pathetic and shrill knee-jerking nonsense goign on here. Just because someone disagrees with yuou in a debate doesnt mean you should attack them and start seeing nonsene which isn't there. The councillor is clearly ill informed but there ARE cyclyists out there who ride badly and give the rest of us a bad name So try debating intelligently. All you are achieving with this bleeding heart over teh top outrage is confirming in the minds of the anti cyclsits that we're a bunch of militant, self righteous troublemakers AmandaHughes14

9:29am Mon 11 Mar 13

Angelfishsolo says...

@AmandaHughes - A key point in a debate is establishing fact from fiction. As it is impossible for riders to reach 40 to 50mph through the village it is clear that is fiction. As such the Councillors argument has been seriously undermined. Add to that the fact that the force needed to take off a wing mirror would result in a road cyclist breaking their arm and you are left with a Councillor who does not like cyclists in his village.
@AmandaHughes - A key point in a debate is establishing fact from fiction. As it is impossible for riders to reach 40 to 50mph through the village it is clear that is fiction. As such the Councillors argument has been seriously undermined. Add to that the fact that the force needed to take off a wing mirror would result in a road cyclist breaking their arm and you are left with a Councillor who does not like cyclists in his village. Angelfishsolo

2:59pm Mon 11 Mar 13

BKD2323 says...

AmandaHughes14 wrote:
So many missing the point here. This isnt abotu the paper. Its about the councils attitude towards cyclists. It isnt pretending to be a balanced story. As the editor says, it is a repot of what was said in a meeting. And their doing a piece next week about it too. Wasting energy by attacking the mee-dya (very trendy bandwagon to jump on that it is) weakens your points. This is hardly the daily mail now is it? So aim your fire where its needed. I'm a cyclist, I'm cross with the councillor and police and will be writing to them. Or maybe youd be happier if they didnt write stories which migh upset people? Then we could have police cracking down on us without realising most people think the councillor is speaking nonnsesne.
Hi Amanda
Were you at the meeting?
Have you seen the recorded minutes from the meeting?
Do you what the agenda items was?

I think we should deal in facts rather than supposition.
Based upon the facts from the meeting, there was no warning issued by anyone.
I think you will find the Herald made the warnign bit up!
[quote][p][bold]AmandaHughes14[/bold] wrote: So many missing the point here. This isnt abotu the paper. Its about the councils attitude towards cyclists. It isnt pretending to be a balanced story. As the editor says, it is a repot of what was said in a meeting. And their doing a piece next week about it too. Wasting energy by attacking the mee-dya (very trendy bandwagon to jump on that it is) weakens your points. This is hardly the daily mail now is it? So aim your fire where its needed. I'm a cyclist, I'm cross with the councillor and police and will be writing to them. Or maybe youd be happier if they didnt write stories which migh upset people? Then we could have police cracking down on us without realising most people think the councillor is speaking nonnsesne.[/p][/quote]Hi Amanda Were you at the meeting? Have you seen the recorded minutes from the meeting? Do you what the agenda items was? I think we should deal in facts rather than supposition. Based upon the facts from the meeting, there was no warning issued by anyone. I think you will find the Herald made the warnign bit up! BKD2323

4:54pm Mon 11 Mar 13

LizBarrett says...

AmandaHughes14 wrote:
Nick Waggett wrote:
I think something the Editor is missing is that the comments of the Councillor and Police officer amount to incitement to violence against cyclists. There are many motorists who need little encouragement to act in dangerous ways towards cyclists and this feels like a green light from people in authority to take the "law breaking" cyclists off the roads before it's too late. Would the paper have printed such obvious untruths and provocative statements against any other group of people without questioning them in some way? The news story here is that two people in power have wilfully attacked a group of vulnerable road users (as defined in the highway code) and they should not be allowed to voice these dangerous views without challenge.
What silly nonsense. Calm down please and get some perspective!!!

Nobody is "incitement to violence" at all.
There is some pathetic and shrill knee-jerking nonsense goign on here.

Just because someone disagrees with yuou in a debate doesnt mean you should attack them and start seeing nonsene which isn't there.

The councillor is clearly ill informed but there ARE cyclyists out there who ride badly and give the rest of us a bad name

So try debating intelligently. All you are achieving with this bleeding heart over teh top outrage is confirming in the minds of the anti cyclsits that we're a bunch of militant, self righteous troublemakers
@ Amanda Hughes - In response to your comments. I am more than happy to debate the rights and wrongs of a situation with any one. Unfortunately Andy Quinn in his civil duties does not have that luxury, he can only represent the views of his constituents. If he is purporting his own views he should state that. The way the article reads was that it was a consensus of Embsay villagers, and it that as an Embsay villager I take offence, beside from the inaccuracy of his comments which has been addressed quite eloquently by many.
[quote][p][bold]AmandaHughes14[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nick Waggett[/bold] wrote: I think something the Editor is missing is that the comments of the Councillor and Police officer amount to incitement to violence against cyclists. There are many motorists who need little encouragement to act in dangerous ways towards cyclists and this feels like a green light from people in authority to take the "law breaking" cyclists off the roads before it's too late. Would the paper have printed such obvious untruths and provocative statements against any other group of people without questioning them in some way? The news story here is that two people in power have wilfully attacked a group of vulnerable road users (as defined in the highway code) and they should not be allowed to voice these dangerous views without challenge.[/p][/quote]What silly nonsense. Calm down please and get some perspective!!! Nobody is "incitement to violence" at all. There is some pathetic and shrill knee-jerking nonsense goign on here. Just because someone disagrees with yuou in a debate doesnt mean you should attack them and start seeing nonsene which isn't there. The councillor is clearly ill informed but there ARE cyclyists out there who ride badly and give the rest of us a bad name So try debating intelligently. All you are achieving with this bleeding heart over teh top outrage is confirming in the minds of the anti cyclsits that we're a bunch of militant, self righteous troublemakers[/p][/quote]@ Amanda Hughes - In response to your comments. I am more than happy to debate the rights and wrongs of a situation with any one. Unfortunately Andy Quinn in his civil duties does not have that luxury, he can only represent the views of his constituents. If he is purporting his own views he should state that. The way the article reads was that it was a consensus of Embsay villagers, and it that as an Embsay villager I take offence, beside from the inaccuracy of his comments which has been addressed quite eloquently by many. LizBarrett

9:12pm Mon 11 Mar 13

Andy from Embsay says...

I'm not sure what to say about the staggering ignorance of my local councillor. It's already been pointed out that it's a physical impossibility for anyone on a bike to hit 40-50mph through Embsay or to knock off a wing mirror. So what are we left with? A democratically elected representative of the village who appears to be doing everything he can to alienate both some of his constituents and a huge number of potential visitors to the area, many of whom will be attracted by the most exciting to happen in years - the arrival of one of the greatest sporting events on the planet. Extraordinary.

And then we have a public servant unquestioningly agreeing with this nonsense and stating "something must be done" about this menace - these non-polluting, silent, relatively slow-moving, non-motorised vehicles that occasionally delay Councillor Quinn on his way back from a meeting in Skipton (presumably powered by his publicly funded fuel allowance). Bizarrely our local PCSO often patrols on a bike - best get that stopped, eh?

Well here's some news for our esteemed councillor and the Chief Superintendent - you don't represent my views. Not do you represent the views of anyone else I've spoken to in the village - so rather than use your positions to peddle (or even better, pedal?) your one-eyed, inaccurate predjudice, why not get behind the opportunities offered by the visit of Le Tour, try to promote more people cycling not try to stop them, and do something positive rather than NIMBY-esque whinging.

Good luck at the ballot box next time, Andy - I think you might see a rather higher turnout in the next local election...
I'm not sure what to say about the staggering ignorance of my local councillor. It's already been pointed out that it's a physical impossibility for anyone on a bike to hit 40-50mph through Embsay or to knock off a wing mirror. So what are we left with? A democratically elected representative of the village who appears to be doing everything he can to alienate both some of his constituents and a huge number of potential visitors to the area, many of whom will be attracted by the most exciting to happen in years - the arrival of one of the greatest sporting events on the planet. Extraordinary. And then we have a public servant unquestioningly agreeing with this nonsense and stating "something must be done" about this menace - these non-polluting, silent, relatively slow-moving, non-motorised vehicles that occasionally delay Councillor Quinn on his way back from a meeting in Skipton (presumably powered by his publicly funded fuel allowance). Bizarrely our local PCSO often patrols on a bike - best get that stopped, eh? Well here's some news for our esteemed councillor and the Chief Superintendent - you don't represent my views. Not do you represent the views of anyone else I've spoken to in the village - so rather than use your positions to peddle (or even better, pedal?) your one-eyed, inaccurate predjudice, why not get behind the opportunities offered by the visit of Le Tour, try to promote more people cycling not try to stop them, and do something positive rather than NIMBY-esque whinging. Good luck at the ballot box next time, Andy - I think you might see a rather higher turnout in the next local election... Andy from Embsay

10:25pm Mon 11 Mar 13

Mart56 says...

In London Boris Johnson has announced plans to spend nearly a billion pounds to encourage more people to cycle in the capital. He sees this as part of the olympic legacy. I wonder what our councillors in Craven have in mind for le Tour legacy?
In London Boris Johnson has announced plans to spend nearly a billion pounds to encourage more people to cycle in the capital. He sees this as part of the olympic legacy. I wonder what our councillors in Craven have in mind for le Tour legacy? Mart56

11:29am Tue 12 Mar 13

Bob_Hitch says...

I'm not a cyclist, but I am looking forward to the Tour.

But that doesnt' mean cyclists should be let off the hook and allowed to behave badly.
And I have seen plenty of selfish and aggressive behaviour from cyclists in recent weeks.

Two weeks ago driving to Leeds I came across two different groups riding three across having a good chat in narrow parts of the road.

And on Sunday I received a tonne of abuse from one gang of lycra clad wallies.
One of them undertook my car while I was moving under 10 miles an hour in traffic and cut straight across the front of my car.
I braked hard to stop him going over my bumper, didn't beep my horn or anything, but was rewarded with a two finger salute, before his mates all cut across swearing at me.
I had done nothing wrong, was moving slowly and they'd cut me up!

And looking from the aggressive and bullying nature of several of the posts on here, it appears cycle rage is alive and well. So much for exercise being good for you!

Mr Quinn may have some of his facts wrong, but there is no denying that some cyclists are selfish road users, and there are plenty of rude and aggressive people among their number. Again, see some of the comments above.

I'm not saying motorists aren't, but the cycling community needs to wake up and address these issues.
It may be a small minority, but you speak to any driver and he'll have encountered his share of bad cyclists.

I hope the police aren't put off challenging poor cyclists because of the bullying from the commentators on here.
This is my view, disagree with it if you want but I'm not posting again as I have no interest in being bullied.
I'm not a cyclist, but I am looking forward to the Tour. But that doesnt' mean cyclists should be let off the hook and allowed to behave badly. And I have seen plenty of selfish and aggressive behaviour from cyclists in recent weeks. Two weeks ago driving to Leeds I came across two different groups riding three across having a good chat in narrow parts of the road. And on Sunday I received a tonne of abuse from one gang of lycra clad wallies. One of them undertook my car while I was moving under 10 miles an hour in traffic and cut straight across the front of my car. I braked hard to stop him going over my bumper, didn't beep my horn or anything, but was rewarded with a two finger salute, before his mates all cut across swearing at me. I had done nothing wrong, was moving slowly and they'd cut me up! And looking from the aggressive and bullying nature of several of the posts on here, it appears cycle rage is alive and well. So much for exercise being good for you! Mr Quinn may have some of his facts wrong, but there is no denying that some cyclists are selfish road users, and there are plenty of rude and aggressive people among their number. Again, see some of the comments above. I'm not saying motorists aren't, but the cycling community needs to wake up and address these issues. It may be a small minority, but you speak to any driver and he'll have encountered his share of bad cyclists. I hope the police aren't put off challenging poor cyclists because of the bullying from the commentators on here. This is my view, disagree with it if you want but I'm not posting again as I have no interest in being bullied. Bob_Hitch

11:52am Tue 12 Mar 13

Hodgepodge says...

I'm a local rider, and while the councillor is over-egging the pudding, it's perfectly possible to exceed 40mph on a road bike at certain points on a run down through Embsay. A glance at certain Strava segments confirms this.
I'm a local rider, and while the councillor is over-egging the pudding, it's perfectly possible to exceed 40mph on a road bike at certain points on a run down through Embsay. A glance at certain Strava segments confirms this. Hodgepodge

11:55am Tue 12 Mar 13

sanone says...

As a Craven cyclist (and car driiver) I too regularly see laws broken by road users, the vast majority of which are car, van and lorry drivers. The use of mobile phones is just one of the common sights. These motorists also see red lights as optional.

But the council just need to look at the high street in Skipton to see motorists breaking the law. A particular common sight of cars turning right from the high street to the car park behind the town hall, even though there is a NO RIGHT RURN sign.

On our club AKA "Mob" ride on Sunday last I had to warn a couple of our newer members of the dangers of motorists pulling out of the pub car park in (said) Embsay village without looking as we have regularly to take evasive action to avoid these motorists rushing to get home from the pub (isn't drinking and driving against the law too?).

I would also point out to the councillors that there are a lot of small businesses in the dales that depend on us "anti-social" cyclists, just look at the tearooms on a Sunday with several bikes outside whilst their "yob" owners sit inside siping teas/coffees and eating cakes and buns (real tear away behaviours).

triathele rant over
As a Craven cyclist (and car driiver) I too regularly see laws broken by road users, the vast majority of which are car, van and lorry drivers. The use of mobile phones is just one of the common sights. These motorists also see red lights as optional. But the council just need to look at the high street in Skipton to see motorists breaking the law. A particular common sight of cars turning right from the high street to the car park behind the town hall, even though there is a NO RIGHT RURN sign. On our club AKA "Mob" ride on Sunday last I had to warn a couple of our newer members of the dangers of motorists pulling out of the pub car park in (said) Embsay village without looking as we have regularly to take evasive action to avoid these motorists rushing to get home from the pub (isn't drinking and driving against the law too?). I would also point out to the councillors that there are a lot of small businesses in the dales that depend on us "anti-social" cyclists, just look at the tearooms on a Sunday with several bikes outside whilst their "yob" owners sit inside siping teas/coffees and eating cakes and buns (real tear away behaviours). triathele rant over sanone

6:42pm Tue 12 Mar 13

jamieR123 says...

I'm a 14 year old cyclist who frequently uses the areas around skipton as my training ground for competative cycle events and the comments made by councillor Quinn are ludicrous! if a cyclist could ride 40/50 miles per hour, they wouldn't be riding through embsay, they would be riding in the tour de france!

Even though i am only 14 (and quite a competant cyclist) i have been sworn at and on one occasion, a driver threatened to knock me into a field!

Maybe next time theres an article on cycling the behaviour of drivers could be mentioned?!
I'm a 14 year old cyclist who frequently uses the areas around skipton as my training ground for competative cycle events and the comments made by councillor Quinn are ludicrous! if a cyclist could ride 40/50 miles per hour, they wouldn't be riding through embsay, they would be riding in the tour de france! Even though i am only 14 (and quite a competant cyclist) i have been sworn at and on one occasion, a driver threatened to knock me into a field! Maybe next time theres an article on cycling the behaviour of drivers could be mentioned?! jamieR123

1:23pm Wed 13 Mar 13

Jamiesiam says...

Don't really care what these road lice do on the roads as long as they stay off the canal towpath!
Don't really care what these road lice do on the roads as long as they stay off the canal towpath! Jamiesiam

2:20pm Wed 13 Mar 13

MAD MAN IN HIS CAR says...

What a total jerk! What's missing in this country is a basic law as its already in place in every other civilised european country. Min distance 1.5m (5 foot in old money) to any cyclist as a legal requirement. Any less get 3 points on your licence. Cyclist don't kill anyone; Car drivers do! Simple.
What a total jerk! What's missing in this country is a basic law as its already in place in every other civilised european country. Min distance 1.5m (5 foot in old money) to any cyclist as a legal requirement. Any less get 3 points on your licence. Cyclist don't kill anyone; Car drivers do! Simple. MAD MAN IN HIS CAR

2:36pm Thu 14 Mar 13

Andy from Embsay says...

Hodgepodge wrote:
I'm a local rider, and while the councillor is over-egging the pudding, it's perfectly possible to exceed 40mph on a road bike at certain points on a run down through Embsay. A glance at certain Strava segments confirms this.
I live at the top of the village so ride down the main road most weekends and I can't think of anywhere you'd hit much over 30mph down there even if you were trying to go as fast as possible (which nobody I ride with ever would as there are too many dangerous junctions).

"A glance at Strava" shows there's one segment in Embsay and it's uphill.
[quote][p][bold]Hodgepodge[/bold] wrote: I'm a local rider, and while the councillor is over-egging the pudding, it's perfectly possible to exceed 40mph on a road bike at certain points on a run down through Embsay. A glance at certain Strava segments confirms this.[/p][/quote]I live at the top of the village so ride down the main road most weekends and I can't think of anywhere you'd hit much over 30mph down there even if you were trying to go as fast as possible (which nobody I ride with ever would as there are too many dangerous junctions). "A glance at Strava" shows there's one segment in Embsay and it's uphill. Andy from Embsay

5:23pm Thu 14 Mar 13

Jasper25 says...

A lot of today's cyclists seem to think every time they go for a ride they are in a race,these are people who wouldn't have been seen dead on bike ten years ago when the sport for all yuppies was golf.
A lot of today's cyclists seem to think every time they go for a ride they are in a race,these are people who wouldn't have been seen dead on bike ten years ago when the sport for all yuppies was golf. Jasper25

12:24am Fri 15 Mar 13

tazo101 says...

Jasper25 wrote:
A lot of today's cyclists seem to think every time they go for a ride they are in a race,these are people who wouldn't have been seen dead on bike ten years ago when the sport for all yuppies was golf.
And your point is what?
[quote][p][bold]Jasper25[/bold] wrote: A lot of today's cyclists seem to think every time they go for a ride they are in a race,these are people who wouldn't have been seen dead on bike ten years ago when the sport for all yuppies was golf.[/p][/quote]And your point is what? tazo101

12:51pm Mon 18 Mar 13

The Yorkshireman says...

plastic100 wrote:
Respect to the editor for making his case, and interesting to see quite a few locals unhappy about the quotes.

This is certainly newsworthy, because this man is an elected representative of the local population. At some point a majority voted for him, despite the fact that he appears to be happy spouting facts which are clearly untrue, and indeed nonsense, to advance some agenda, the purpose of which is less clear.
Indeed, as an elected representative with these bigoted and ill informed views it make me worry about what else the Councillors are discussing and how they are arriving at thier decisions. Perhaps it is time we had a decent election in the Wards and got rid of some of these old Consrevative Councillors who fear change and look to halt progress at every turn and replaced them with a more vibrant and energetic group who actually want Skipton and the villages to thrive and grow.
[quote][p][bold]plastic100[/bold] wrote: Respect to the editor for making his case, and interesting to see quite a few locals unhappy about the quotes. This is certainly newsworthy, because this man is an elected representative of the local population. At some point a majority voted for him, despite the fact that he appears to be happy spouting facts which are clearly untrue, and indeed nonsense, to advance some agenda, the purpose of which is less clear.[/p][/quote]Indeed, as an elected representative with these bigoted and ill informed views it make me worry about what else the Councillors are discussing and how they are arriving at thier decisions. Perhaps it is time we had a decent election in the Wards and got rid of some of these old Consrevative Councillors who fear change and look to halt progress at every turn and replaced them with a more vibrant and energetic group who actually want Skipton and the villages to thrive and grow. The Yorkshireman

12:53pm Mon 18 Mar 13

The Yorkshireman says...

Angelfishsolo wrote:
Maybe a campaign to get all of the riders to turn there backs on Quinn is in order?
And voters........
[quote][p][bold]Angelfishsolo[/bold] wrote: Maybe a campaign to get all of the riders to turn there backs on Quinn is in order?[/p][/quote]And voters........ The Yorkshireman

8:55pm Fri 22 Mar 13

hexhome says...

This story has really hit the cycling forums and press. Judging by the photograph, Councillor Quinn has never ridden a bicycle and travels everywhere by motor transport. He can therefore be forgiven for his fear of the unfamiliar. I doubt that he will be forgiven by local voters for the damage caused to the local economy. Cyclists contribute billions towards the economy, clearly Craven doesn't want to see any of it!
This story has really hit the cycling forums and press. Judging by the photograph, Councillor Quinn has never ridden a bicycle and travels everywhere by motor transport. He can therefore be forgiven for his fear of the unfamiliar. I doubt that he will be forgiven by local voters for the damage caused to the local economy. Cyclists contribute billions towards the economy, clearly Craven doesn't want to see any of it! hexhome

Comments are closed on this article.

click2find

About cookies

We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use.

I agree